1. The Lesser of Two
Evils
Q: You in the S.P.G.B. always seem to disregard
the fact that Socialism cannot possibly come for a long while yet. Surely the
practical thing to do in the meantime is to try to make the present system work
better?
A: If Capitalism
could be made to work differently we should have seen some worthwhile results
from all the efforts of those who have tried to improve it. The “meantime” you
refer to must be a capitalist meantime and is no responsibility of those who
seek to replace it with a better system. The establishment of Socialism depends
on you, and enough others like you, withdrawing your support of Capitalism. It
becomes practicable only to the extent that socialist ideas are accepted, and
it will become a reality when action in line with those ideas is taken. What
you call being practical amounts to trying to patch up Capitalism, the
existence of which is the cause of the problems we all want to solve.
Q: Don't you think you should support the
Labour Party at elections, since its policy is nearer to Socialism than that of
the Conservative Party?
A: The Labour
Party, in common with all other parties in this country, except the S.P.G.B.,
seeks support from the electorate on a programme of reforms. In spite of the
“Socialist” label which others have attached to it and which its leaders have
been reluctant to disown, its policy has nothing to do with Socialism. It is
really absurd to believe that one party’s administration of Capitalism helps to
bring us nearer to Socialism than any other’s would. If you support any of the
parties that offer anything but Socialism as a practical policy you are in
effect agreeing to the continuation of Capitalism. In doing so you are helping
to postpone Socialism, not bring it nearer.
Q: Why do you stand aloof from the political
struggle by advocating something you know is not practical politics'! Why not
support the trade unions in the day-to-day struggle for better conditions?
A: We do not
stand aloof from the political struggle. We support trade union activity that
is genuinely in the interest of the working class. But we recognise that such
action can only be defensive. It is only organisation on the political field
that will enable the class system to be abolished. Capitalism defies all the
efforts of reformers who seek to rid it of war, insecurity, poverty and other
social ills, and these problems will remain unsolved until the property basis
of society is abolished. Socialists are organised in the S.P.G.B. not to haggle
with their employers over the way in which Capitalism is run but solely to
replace it with Socialism.
Q: The Labour Party's policy is more for the
workers than the representatives of big business in the Tory Party are. So the
first thing to do is to get the Tories out, isn't it?
A: All you would
do by that would be to choose the rival firm to run Capitalism. You ask us to
help defeat the Tories because you think doing that will bring you a step
nearer the sort of world you want. But you’ll find, as six years of Labour
Government should have shown you, that it won’t. When you understand that the
enemy to be overcome is the present system of society itself then you aim
directly at establishing Socialism. The growth of socialist understanding will
succeed more than anything else in making all its opponents sink their minor
differences and in forcing them to make concessions in a vain attempt to divert
people from taking action to end Capitalism.
Q. Surely a strong socialist movement is much
more likely to grow under a Labour Government than under a Tory one? Isn't it
better to have a party in power which has been built up by working-class
support rather than one which represents their traditional enemies?
A: Your arguments
are based on the assumption that the Labour administration of Capitalism is
preferable to the Tory one. But if most people had found this so then the
present Government would never have been chosen to replace the allegedly better
Labour one. In other words, what was imagined to be the lesser evil had in the
eyes of the electors become the greater. The truth is that Capitalism can be
run in only one way—in the interest of the capitalist class against that of the
working class. It doesn’t matter whether members of the Government are “of the
people,” so-called middle class or millionaires; they compete at elections with
others offering to do the same job. If you don’t want Socialism you choose one
set of them. When disappointed you may change your registration, but you still
get the same meagre rations because you’ve done nothing to end the system that
rations you.
Q: We must do something positive now about the
problems that face us. Why wait for a majority of people to understand all
about Socialism before taking some constructive action?
A: Behind your
question is the false belief that you stand to lose by not choosing what is
often claimed to be the lesser of two evils. When you understand Socialism the
question of waiting for others doesn’t arise—your “action” is to make them
socialists also. Just look at the position you are in. You want to enjoy better
conditions of living and a world without war. You realise the Tory Party can do
nothing to bring these things, yet you still cling to the hope that the Labour
Party can do a little better. You should stop trying to take a short cut that
isn’t there—you’re wasting your time when you could be making solid progress
towards your goal. Don’t be sidetracked by the specious plea that you have to
choose between two evils when you can reject both by choosing Socialism.
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2. Incentive to Work
Q: Since there will be no money and no payment
of any kind under Socialism what will be the incentive for people to do the
necessary work?
A: It’s true that
most of us at present have to go to work to get money, but this is not an end
in itself being only the means of obtaining some of the things we produce.
Capitalism puts a price tag on everything, including workers’ energies which
are bought by the employer for wages. To the capitalist class “having money”
means having the means of exploiting the labour of others. Far from ensuring
that all necessary work is done. Capitalism sacrifices the needs of human
beings to the demands of markets. Textile mills are not closed because nobody
needs textiles, but because not enough have the money to buy what they want. In
contrast under Socialism the incentive for all to work will be the direct
satisfaction of human needs. Everybody will have equal access to the wealth of
the world, to which they will contribute to the best of their ability, and they
will need no incentive other than the knowledge that they will be helping
themselves and others to live full and happy lives.
Q: If people weren’t forced to work if they
didn't want to wouldn't most of them very quickly give it up and just take what
they want without putting anything in?
A: The mistake
you make is in thinking that work under Socialism will have the same
objectionable features—low pay, long hours of boring routine, needless risk to
health and limb, etc.—that employment has under Capitalism. When freed from conditions
associated with exploitation work will not be looked upon as a necessary evil
but as the normal activity of mankind. Hobbies, voluntary work and often an
unwillingness to be pensioned off disprove the theory that people will only
work for money. The cash incentive may now be strong but it is also very
anti-social, since it results in many useless and harmful acts, from the
stupidity of ticket-clipping to the monstrosity of world war. Under Socialism
only useful work will be done and those whose labour is now wasted or employed
for anti-social purposes will be free to help. In those circumstances it is
difficult to imagine anybody refusing to put something into the common pool,
though individual contributions will neither be forced nor will any attempt be
made to relate them to consumption.
Q: Under Socialism we should presumably all
choose the work we like doing, if any. But suppose a lot of us decided to do
one job and nobody would do another?
A: What makes you
think such a state of affairs would exist? It's true there will be the need for
organisation and division of labour, but the scope for utilising all the varied
human talents will be far greater than exists today. More people will be able
to do more things and will be free to express themselves in ways which property
society denies them. Of course if the work is harmful to doer then society will
either go without the product or find some other way of obtaining it. Remember
that Socialism is only possible when a majority of people understand the need
for it and what it entails. The fact that people will be free to do the work
they like means that there will be nothing to make them do otherwise—but, being
sensible folk, they will not insist upon doing something the result of which
nobody wants. Since everyone will be encouraged to use his particular abilities
to meet society’s needs, the question of certain social-needed work not being
done will not arise.
Q: Who’s going to decide how much of everything
each of us needs'? Wouldn't there be difficulties in allocating those things
which are bound to be short occasionally?
A: Who will
decide how much you need? The answer is—you will! Nobody can tell you now how
much food will satisfy you since you are the best judge of that. Even
capitalists do not keep on eating just because they can afford to. Under
Socialism the whole productive and distributive machinery will be geared to
satisfying self-expressed human needs. It’s very unlikely that people who have
succeeded in building a society free from war, poverty and the other evils of
Capitalism will be baulked by the problem of distribution. A temporary shortage
of a certain type of goods or service will be the cue for those who are willing
and able to change their contribution to the work of society, to do so.
Q: What incentive would there be for the
ordinary hard-working chap to produce things which a few anti-social types
could monopolise. Wouldn't he refuse to do so mid so wreck the whole system?
A: Your views on
what Socialism will be like are coloured by your accepting capitalist
standards, which prevents your understanding what the world will be like when
they are replaced by socialist ones. There will be no anti-social behaviour
such as you suggest because there will be no incentive to it. Nobody wants to
monopolise what is freely available—capitalist markets are only “cornered” to
make a profit, not out of greed for the commodities themselves. We've never met
one of these anti-social types (it’s always “the other chap”) who wants to
stockpile free goods. Even if there are a few human magpies when Socialism is
in its infancy, the novelty of hoarding will soon wear off.
Q: Knowing people as they are today, with all
their faults, do you really think they will in fact work for the good of
society even though they agree to have Socialism?
A: Your question
assumes that in a socialist world people will have the same anti-social habits
and tendencies that are bred in a capitalist one. To question that they will do
the work required to meet all reasonable needs is to question their
understanding of Socialism. But why doubt the willingness of your fellow-men to
shoulder burdens which will be far lighter than those they shoulder under any
form of Capitalism? What really stands in the way of the growth of socialist
understanding is not this question of incentives, but the fact that most people
accept Capitalism as the only possible system. The incentive socialists have is
that they are helping to build a world which will at last be for the greatest
good of the greatest number.
3. Can the others
understand?
Q: Doesn't the slow growth in membership of the
S.P.G.B. show that most people just won't take an interest in Socialism in the
way you expect them to?
A: If you judge
the progress of socialist ideas solely in terms of the enrolled membership of
the S.P.G.B., then our task does seem to be fruitless. But we don't agree that
the present size of the Party is a measure of the impression we have made on
those who have heard our case. There is a vast difference between the reactions
of someone who hears our case for the first time and those of a regular critic
who has passed the stage (if he ever went through it) of misrepresenting and
abusing us. In the early days of the Party, particularly during the first World
War, our audiences were far more hostile than they are to-day. The growth of
political tolerance, the rising general level of political understanding which
is a result of Capitalism's own development is reflected in the more
sympathetic and reasoning way people approach our case.
Q: Surely there must be something wrong about
your arguments if you fail to convince people that Socialism is desirable?
Wouldn't you have got many more people to become socialists by this time if you
had been advocating what they really want?
A: You can't
judge the soundness of an idea by the number of people who hold it or by the
speed with which they may take it up. Because the number of socialists is only
a fraction of the number who have heard our case (itself only a tiny fraction
of the population) it doesn't follow that we are out of touch with their ideas,
hopes and desires. On the contrary, we are the only Party able to talk in terms
of the sort of world most people want to live in, although we point out that it
must be the result of their own political efforts and cannot be
"given" to them by leaders. One of the worst results of Capitalism is
the cynicism and fatalism it has bred, typified by the widespread belief that
war is inevitable even though nobody wants it. Socialists don't put forward
what is unwanted, but rather what is wrongly believed to be unattainable.
Q: What do you think stops you from making
progress? Don't you think that the herd instinct and unwillingness to accept
new ideas weigh heavily against you?
A: You seem to be
trying to find excuses for the attitude to Socialism that its opponents
encourage to be held. It's not primarily because it's a “new idea" that
people don't accept it. Unfortunately Socialism is usually confused with some
form of State Capitalism and is most often attacked by those having little or
no knowledge of what it really means. Capitalist propaganda does take advantage
of this following the herd feeling, but when we meet our opponents singly they
nearly always answer the challenge of Socialism by falling back on others'
alleged inability to understand it. If you understand our case it's up to you
to win others to your point of view, not to bemoan their not holding it.
Q: You talk of winning others to your point of
view, but doesn't it occur to you that they don't want to be won over? You must
face the fact that most people haven't got the same outlook as you SP.G.B'ers.
A: We try to win
others over to our point of view because that is the only way of achieving our
object. If they don’t accept the case for Socialism then we must continue to
discuss it with them on the basis that what we understand others can also. When
you refer to our different outlook you probably mean our opposition to all
other parties, but there's nothing remarkable in taking up that position once
you realise they are all opposed to what you want. Of course, it's tempting to
believe that all you have to do is to vote for the right party, and our
opponents play on this desire to take what appears to be the easy way out.
Although capitalist propagandists don't often specifically attack the S.P.G.B.
they certainly do go to great lengths to prevent workers from developing a
socialist outlook. There is a sort of "honour among thieves" that
does not allow any of our opponents to question the continuation of the present
economic system.
Q: If people take any
interest in politics at all they want to see some tangible results from their
efforts. Surely you must see you will make no headway unless you can compete
successfully with other parties?
A: It's true we
could make headway if we made extravagant promises—so can any party for a
while— but that has nothing to do with Socialism. Your argument presupposes
that people will always be fobbed off with unfulfilled promises and other
devices that all our opponents use to gain a following. Our view is that the
slow growth of socialist ideas is not because people are hostile towards them
but because they are preoccupied with seemingly more practical ways of
improving their conditions. It amounts to their trying vainly all possible ways
to solve their problems within Capitalism before they see the necessity of
abolishing it The growing disparity between the conditions most people want and
those they have must eventually lead to such action.
Q: I think you have set yourselves an impossible
task. Why waste your time trying to make people understand something they know
can never come in their lifetime?
A: The task is
only impossible so long as people like you believe it's impossible. We don’t
advocate Socialism just because we think it will be a good thing for our
descendants—we do so because it is possible to establish it in our lifetime.
Remember that we are not a race apart from our as yet non-socialists brothers;
some of them are at this moment acquiring the same ideas that made us socialists.
Even supposing the road to Socialism is as long as you imply, is that any
reason for not starting on it? Our challenge to you is to suffer conditions
like the present that any form of Capitalism must bring or to become a
socialist and help to build a society really worth living in.
4. Leadership
Q: You say there is no place for leaders in the
socialist movement, but why do you attack the whole idea of leadership just
because some leaders are enemies of the working class?
A: We don’t
object to leadership because we want to be cussed, but because we see it as one
of the biggest obstacles to the spread of socialist ideas. Capitalism has
developed to the point where workers (all whose livelihood depends on selling
their energies) run society from top to bottom. Owners of capital need not play
the smallest part in the undertaking which produces their rent, interest or
profit; they can even have their wealth added to while in a lunatic asylum. Yet
still most workers haven't seen the possibility of a world without masters, a
world which would be run in the interests of all mankind instead of those of a
capitalist or “leading” class. There are no leaders in the socialist movement
because there will be no leaders under Socialism—there can be none in a society
based on equality of status and the willing co-operation of all in production
solely for use.
Q: But surely there have always been leaders in
all forms of society? What makes you think that under Socialism it will be any
different?
A: Leadership
only makes sense when there is a ruling class and a ruled class, and it implies
that most people are incapable of organising affairs in their own interest and
so must accept the dictates of a few. Ours differs from all previous
revolutionary movements in that it doesn’t aim to replace one ruling class by
another but to abolish classes altogether. You say there have always been
leaders, but you must realise that their existence has been and is bound up
with the institution of private property. All leaders are placed in a
privileged position by their followers, who either agree with the policies laid
down or think they can do nothing about them. By contrast, Socialism means that
nobody will be placed in a position of governing others.
Q: Don't you think that those who have
qualities of leadership can help to build up a following for the socialist
movement? What’s wrong in doing that?
A: Leadership
does not work out that way. But the fact is only those can help to establish
Socialism who understand their class position in society and are determined to
end it. If there are leaders then there must be the led, but there cannot be
much difference between their ideas, since a leader can only offer to lead
where he is likely to be followed. He is not really in advance of his
followers, as you seem to think, because if he stops leading them in the direction
they think is the best open to them they will soon desert him for another who
will. People who are easily persuaded to think one way by a powerful
personality can usually be persuaded by a more powerful one to change their
minds. Socialist ideas do not depend on such barren methods for their
propagation.
Q: It’s obvious that most people prefer to
leave political thinking to others. How else than by leading people, in the
sense of showing them the way, do you expect to get them interested in
Socialism?
A: One of the
main reasons for people acquiescing in the continuation of Capitalism, is that
they are led to believe it is the only possible system. It is just because they
are so used to being told what is good for them that they are often puzzled
when we say “We can’t lead you to Socialism—you must understand and build it
yourselves.” The blunt truth is that if people want leaders they want class
society, and if they want class society they cannot want Socialism. But more
and more of them will become interested in Socialism because they are faced
with the same problems as we are, and failure to solve them within Capitalism
will eventually lead them to see the necessity of abolishing it. We do our best
to point out the road to Socialism and to encourage others along it, but there
can be no substitute for their knowledge of what is needed to achieve the goal.
Q: Don’t you think it would be a good thing if
you could work out a definite plan for Socialism that people could easily
understand? That way you would give a lead to others without giving power to
individual leaders.
A: We are always
eager to help people to understand our case and to discuss with them the
difficulties and objections they have concerning it. From our understanding of
the past and the needs of the present we try to show what the future classless
society will look like. But what you propose is that we should work out all the
details in advance, and present them to the as yet non-socialist majority as a
sort of pill to be taken for their sufferings under Capitalism. If we did that,
however, we should be acting no differently from the reformers who offer to
lead the working class to better conditions and consistently fail to do so. The
lesson is that no matter how well-meaning you may be, once you are given
political power you must follow where events lead and, without a majority of
socialists, that cannot be to Socialism.
Q: You admit you’ve got to send delegates to
Parliament before you can overthrow Capitalism, so why baulk at having democratic
leaders now?
A: You have only
to look at the Labour Party to see why. In its early days quite a few of its
leaders were no doubt sincerely in favour of abolishing Capitalism. But they
thought that the working class would have to be led to it, and the means they
adopted were those of getting into Parliament on the votes of reformists in
order to advocate Socialism. So they stood for Parliament, but when they were
elected the means (political power) became the end in itself. Thus we see that
as such leaders push themselves forward their “Socialism” recedes farther into
the future and is eventually lost altogether. You must not confuse such leaders
of the working class with the delegates the socialist movement chooses to carry
out its will. The former have no mandate to abolish Capitalism even if they
wished to do so—the latter are the instruments the majority in society will use
to institute Socialism. To think in terms of political power without political
knowledge on the part of those who make up that power is to oppose all that
Socialism means.
5. Tactics for
Socialists
Q: Assuming that all you say about other
parties is true, do you think you are going the right way about getting
Socialism? At present all you seem to do is to talk at street corners and sell
a few bits of literature.
A: Having reached
the point where you see that our case against other parties is correct, you
appear to think that our methods of advocating Socialism are not so correct. We
are tempted to re-direct the question to you by asking what is the right way to
go about getting Socialism if ours is not? If there are ways open to us that we
are not using then we should like to hear about them. The position is that the
amount of our propaganda, which seems so puny in comparison to that of our
opponents, is limited by the number of socialists there are. It is not our
intention to speak only at street corners or to print our literature in
thousands of copies instead of in millions. We try to make the best of every
opportunity for propagating our ideas, although we stress that it can only do
harm to the socialist cause to compromise them merely for the sake of getting a
wider hearing.
Q: It seems to me that the S.P.G.B. must become
a larger party before it will attract wide support. Why not do something that
will make people sit up and take notice of you?
A: Behind your
question is the assumption that the correctness of an idea is to be judged by
the numbers who hold it. True, the pressing need is for more people to
understand Socialism, but experience has taught us to be very suspicious of any
suggestion that this may be achieved by any form of stunt or vote-catching. Our
objections to this sort of campaigning is not a moral one, but consists in the
fact that it hinders rather than helps the spread of socialist understanding.
No useful purpose would be served by merely seeking to attract attention,
unless it is for a purpose connected with socialist propaganda, and that is our
policy at all times.
Q: Don't you think it would pay you to find out
what most people really want, and to talk more about the things they are really
interested in?
A: The
implication here is that at present we are out of touch with these things. This
is untrue. It may look to you as though other parties are concerned with giving
you what you want, but this is only their tactics and window-dressing to gain
your support for policies that fail to deliver the goods. Most people are
interested in getting more money, and almost every reform of Capitalism is
based upon some form of this desire—yet it remains unsatisfied for the vast
majority. The fact is that what appears to be the “practical” solution to our
problems is in reality no solution at all, and the seemingly out-of-touch
programme of Socialism is nearest to the satisfaction of present human needs.
Unfortunately, many workers are interested (consciously or unconsciously) in
making Capitalism work a little better, but in doing so they are acting against
their own interests.
Q: Your arguments always seem to be so
negative. Why can't you put forward a positive programme that will convince
people that you are really going somewhere?
A: If you think
our arguments are negative then you can have listened to only a part of our
case. It is necessary first to analyse Capitalism, and in the process to clear
away the false ideas that are held about it. Then, arising out of this, comes
the explanation of what is to take its place—Socialism. If you disagree with us
about the “destructive” (but very necessary) first part of the argument then
you will not appreciate the constructive second part, nor be able to work out
with us the form that the new society will take. You want us to appear to be
“going somewhere,” but this can only be in the direction of Socialism if our
positive programme is for this object alone.
Q: The ideas you put forward are too futuristic.
Can't you make them easier to understand by relating them more to the world as
it is to-day?
A: You seem to intend “futuristic” to be a term of reproach,
but there is no good reason why it should be—to plan for to-morrow is an
integral part of human activity. However, what you probably believe is that too
many to-morrows will have to be like to-day before we can hope to get
Socialism. The problem of getting people who are living under Capitalism to see
the practicability of another system is by no means an easy task, but it is not
impossible—if it were there could be no socialists within capitalist society.
Certain features and tendencies in the world at present can be used to show
what Socialism will probably be like, but analogies such as "all goods
will be produced and distributed as freely as water is now” have their
limitations. It is important never to lose sight of the basic principles of
majority understanding and action upon which Socialism must be built, otherwise
the descriptions of the future, though easy to make, may be merely Utopian and
a bar to progress.
Q: People are put off by your sectarian
attitude. Why not encourage them to join, and be less strict in admitting
members?
A: Let us make it
quite clear that nobody is put off being a socialist because our Party contains
only socialists. What you really mean is that we don’t try to enrol people who
can be whipped up to do almost anything in a suitably emotional atmosphere.
Even if such people were to join the S.P.G.B. they would only leave when they
found out what it is all about. The idea of joining with non-socialists in
order to achieve “immediate aims” has dogged the Party since its inception, but
it has steadfastly refused to sink its socialist identity for the sake of what
appear to be immediate advantages. We are as sincerely sorry as you that our
organisation is not larger, but (if you will forgive the phrase) it is the
quality, not the quantity, that counts. There is only one sort of tactics for
socialists living in a capitalist world, and that is to help make more
socialists.
6. What will
Socialism be like?
Q: Granted that Capitalism is an undesirable
system, what guarantee is there that Socialism would work out the way you suggest,
or even that it would work at all.
A: Socialism does
not consist of a set of ideas that have been worked out by a few people
independently the rest of society. Its establishment is predicted as the
solution to the problems of Capitalism and this is the basis upon which all our
attempts to describe the future must rest. Before we go into the question of
how Socialism will work we have first to show that, given certain conditions,
it is possible to achieve. Our guarantee, as you put it, that it will work is
that people having the requisite knowledge and desire will make it work. There
is no question of Socialism being given a trial, perhaps found wanting, and
then going back to Capitalism. The change we advocate is not to be compared
with the changes of government of the present —it is a step in the evolution of
society as irreversible as that from Feudalism to Capitalism.
Q: Your aim is to abolish Capitalism, but won't
this mean removing a lot of what is good dong with the bad? Where do you
propose to draw the line in your revolutionary changes?
A: It is not a
case of having to sacrifice some of the “good” points of Capitalism in order to
get rid of the “bad." A system of society is an integrated whole, every
part of which influences, and is influenced by, the other parts. You may, for
example, hold that competition is good and monopoly bad, but since both are
features of Capitalism and the latter in fact results from the former, then any
judgment on the system must take into account every such “good" cause and
“bad” effect. As we see it, there is no line to be drawn beyond which no change
will take place. The changing of the economic basis will have its effect upon
every aspect of society, but this does not mean that the means and results of
capitalist production will necessarily be replaced—what is useful to the new
society will be preserved or modified to suit the new conditions.
Q: According to you, Socialism means that
people will be able to have what they need just for the asking. Don't you think
they will all ask for the best?
A: Human needs
are closely connected with what is capable of being produced; thus the need of
a radio set is not felt unless society is able to produce radio sets. The
desire, under conditions of production for profit, to have certain things will
not necessarily be present under Socialism. For example, when people to-day say
they need money it is not for its own sake, but for the access it would afford
to goods or services which Socialism will provide freely. Similarly, the present
demand for anything less than the best (though this often depends on individual
preference) is due to the need to buy cheaply. With Socialism, the sole
criterion for producing goods and services will be whether they will be
used—inferior ones, being unwanted, will therefore not be produced.
Q: There is bound to be a minority who will
resist the coming of Socialism. Won't there have to be some sort of
organisation to prevent anti-social behaviour of capitalists and their lackeys?
A: It always
seems to be taken for granted that the coming of Socialism will be met with
fierce resistance by a minority. There is no basis for this supposition which,
like most objections to our case, arises from a projection of present
circumstances into the future. We cannot deal here with all the implications of
this question, except to point out that Socialism has nothing to do with
punishing capitalists or anyone else. If you say that there must be an
organisation to repress minorities then you are saying there must be policemen,
gaolers, judges lawyers—in short, you think Socialism will be like Capitalism
is now, which of course it won't be. Anti-social behaviour is not prevented by
the existence of the machinery for the detection and punishment of crime, since
this machinery does not touch the cause of the problem. When that cause—the
property basis of society—is removed the effects will disappear also.
Q: It seems to me that Socialism would only
work if society were split up into small self-sufficing units. Do you really
think that people in, say, China would be willing to grow rice and freely
transport it to the people in Britain?
A: Again, you are
imagining what Socialism would be like if it could somehow be grafted on to the
present system instead of replacing it. The tendency within Capitalism is
towards universality or oneness of the world and not back to smaller
communities. Production is for a world market with consequent transport of
goods over huge distances. It is not likely that people living in the geographical
area (no longer nation) of Britain will be willing to go without everything
that is not obtainable within its shores and there will be no need for them to
do so. The distribution of food will be according to a world plan, which exists
now in embryo but is held back by capitalist considerations of international
trade. Since Socialism will operate throughout the world people in one part
will no more discriminate against distant populations than they will against
their neighbours.
Q: How can you possibly tell what people will
think and do in the future? Surely all attempts to do so must be pure
speculation?
A: We must make
it clear that our forecast of the future is not made with the object of laying
down what it should be. But we recognise that it is not enough just to agree to
abolish Capitalism without having some idea of the system that is to replace
it. There would, in fact, be no point to our criticisms of the present if we
were not able to show how they can be followed up by suitable action. There is
nothing speculative, for example, about the universal desire to live in a world
without war, so why suppose that man will become reconciled to its
ever-increasing horrors rather than abolish it? The case for Socialism is that
man can solve his own social problems by taking action as planned and
scientific as he has taken in controlling the forces of nature. If you agree
that the idea is sound then your only concern is to get others to accept it, so
that the future may be what you and we collectively want it to be.
Stan Parker
Socialist Standard
1952
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