tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post471087381873606105..comments2024-03-22T19:52:46.571+00:00Comments on SOCIALISM OR YOUR MONEY BACK: "Rubber-band" PovertyPoetry Coalshedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05514953133244910986noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-25202825451649449992016-05-19T10:52:41.880+00:002016-05-19T10:52:41.880+00:00We are in for 'as long as it takes'. We ar...We are in for 'as long as it takes'. We are far from the theory of, "consciousness being determined by social being" having been disproved and witness vast sums of money being spent to manipulate narratives which represent capitalism as the only choice available.Matthew Culberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01698202497017246060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-75756837244588315232016-05-19T10:46:08.763+00:002016-05-19T10:46:08.763+00:00"experience has effectively refuted the '... "experience has effectively refuted the 'consciousness is determined by circumstance' argument."<br /><br />Could you perhaps expand upon this statement and provide some evidence for your claim.<br /><br />"consciousness is determined by circumstance" <br /><br />Our case does not rest entirely on that claim but adds the importance of the battle of ideas...an ideological case for socialism also has to be be made, not just the deterministic automaticity for socialist consciousness. If it were the case, there is no need for a socialist party nor even socialists to try to persuade fellow workers of the various courses they can set for themselves. We'd just settle back and sit for socialism to arrive. Even class struggle does not guarantee such a development but can become an endless treadmill...a hamsters wheel of activity going nowhere. <br /><br />ajohnstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09874891810770297962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-63566678105362206952016-05-19T10:19:08.699+00:002016-05-19T10:19:08.699+00:00'Live like lords' is a figure of speech fo...'Live like lords' is a figure of speech for goodness sake.If consciousness is determined by circumstances and you expect the working class at some point to become dissatisfied with those circumstances and go for revolution you are in for a long wait. In fact, experience has effectively refuted the 'consciousness is determined by circumstance' argument. So at least you could say it was a scientific statement. Scientists either emend or throw out a refuted theory. 'Scientific' socialists, however, cling on to them for dear life. Understandable in that they have got little else to offer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-86209888053033312422016-05-18T11:07:11.239+00:002016-05-18T11:07:11.239+00:00The poor don't ever live like Lords. Your comp...The poor don't ever live like Lords. Your comparison is with the wrong class. The comparative relationship of the exploited should set against the exploiter capitalist class of today many of whom have seats in the Lords. <br /><br /> Some of those absolute conditions depicted by Orwell still exist and have been exported to so called developing countries. Also hidden from view is the 'gang labour' practises of some in agricultural and seasonal sectors.Matthew Culberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01698202497017246060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-20807787077567439782016-05-18T10:06:09.310+00:002016-05-18T10:06:09.310+00:00Well, I'm describing myself! Pardon me for get...Well, I'm describing myself! Pardon me for getting all empirical. Recently re-read Orwell's 'Road to Wigan Pier'. Pretty poor stuff. The man was no socialist. But the description of working class poverty 70 odd years ago is still affecting. The 'poor' today live like lords in comparison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-86682302866754504372016-05-17T20:34:44.315+00:002016-05-17T20:34:44.315+00:00Your prejudiced definition of qualifying what is n...Your prejudiced definition of qualifying what is not 'poor' leaves much to be desired.Having a mobile phone contact number, usually a prepaid deal, is an essential requirement of job seeking apparatus and one can be subject to a penalty if one does not make oneself, available in this way.Matthew Culberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01698202497017246060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-61226127174680889392016-05-17T12:28:32.565+00:002016-05-17T12:28:32.565+00:00No one believes this. Unemployed people who are sa...No one believes this. Unemployed people who are sat on the setee in front a high definition TV stuffing themselves with pizza while talking on a mobile are not 'poor'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com