tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post3748382278826931255..comments2024-03-22T19:52:46.571+00:00Comments on SOCIALISM OR YOUR MONEY BACK: No Marx!Poetry Coalshedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05514953133244910986noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-92038497237331536902015-04-14T04:09:03.546+00:002015-04-14T04:09:03.546+00:00Thank you very much, guys! That's indeed a ver...Thank you very much, guys! That's indeed a very complete reference, with different names but similar ideas to explore, all written according to each person's model and style. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-54943085346582358072015-04-13T15:23:38.781+00:002015-04-13T15:23:38.781+00:00You may also be interested in Hal Drapers analysis...You may also be interested in Hal Drapers analysis of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat<br />https://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1962/xx/dictprolet.htmlajohnstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09874891810770297962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-864207645403473912015-04-13T15:23:27.792+00:002015-04-13T15:23:27.792+00:00http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-stand...http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1960s/1969/no-781-september-1969/lenin-twists-marxism<br /><br />http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2010/02/myth-of-transitional-society.html<br /><br /> you may wish the authority of others, not so partisan.<br /><br />Andrew Kliman, <br />'The idea of a transitional society—an intermediate society in between capitalism and socialism—makes little sense within the context of Marx’s thought. It does make sense given some other conceptions of capitalism and socialism, but not Marx’s. For instance, the idea of a transitional society makes perfect sense if one thinks, as Lenin and Trotsky and Mao did, that capitalism is private ownership while socialism is state ownership. In that case, there is indeed a third kind of society in between them, in which there’s both private and state ownership. And the move from capitalism to socialism is thus a transition, from less to more to complete state ownership.<br />And there are other conceptions of social change in which the idea of a transitional society also makes perfect sense. For instance, one idea that has recently been popular is that the new society is the completed process of occupying space and establishing new forms of organization on occupied space. On this conception, there is again a third kind of society in between capitalism and the new society, a society with elements of both of them, and the move from capitalism to the new society is again a process of transition––in this case, the quantitative increase in occupied space and new forms of organization.<br />But the idea of a transitional society in between capitalism and socialism isn’t coherent as a Marxian concept...Capitalism is based on the mode of production; socialism is based on the socialist mode of production. If there is a third kind of society in between them, what is its mode of production? Capitalism is governed by the law of value (in Marx’s sense) and related economic imperatives that are specific to it. Socialism is not. What about the third, distinct kind of society that supposedly lies in between them? Is it governed by these specifically capitalist laws and imperatives, or is it not?”<br /><br /> Paul Robeson Jnr <br />'In The State and Revolution, Lenin merged socialism with the first phase of communism by quoting selectively from Marx's Critique of the Gotha Program and then claiming, incorrectly, that 'the social order termed by Marx the first phase of communism' was 'usually called socialism.' '<br />http://nova.wpunj.edu/newpolitics/issue24/robeso24.htm<br /><br />Paresh Chattopadhyay - 'Marx does not distinguish between communism and socialism. Both stand for the society succeeding capitalism. (The distinction was first to be made famous, if not introduced, by Lenin)'.<br /><br />Hillel Ticktin "The fundamental aspect of a communist or socialist society (I make no distinction between the two) is that for the first time a society is planned by the associated producers themselves." http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/652/ticktin.htm<br /><br />'Now it is true that the distinction between socialism and communism was actually made and employed by Lenin, Trotsky and so forth. But they put inverted commas around the word ‘socialism’: ie, so-called socialism.'<br /><br />James Cannon<br />Q: Is there socialism in the Soviet Union?<br />A: No—well, I would like to clarify that now. Socialism and communism are more or less interchangeable terms in the Marxist movement. Some make a distinction between them in this respect; for example, Lenin used the expression socialism as the first stage of communism, but I haven’t found any other authority for that use. I think that is Lenin’s own particular idea. I, for example, consider the terms socialism and communism interchangeable, and they relate to the classless society based on planned production for use as distinct from a system of capitalism based on private property and production for profit.<br />https://www.marxists.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch02.htm<br /><br /><br />ajohnstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09874891810770297962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36028082.post-2583300775843033332015-04-13T14:12:14.839+00:002015-04-13T14:12:14.839+00:00Hello, Socialist Party of Great Britain. Would you...Hello, Socialist Party of Great Britain. Would you be able to recommend a scientific article or book that defends the interpretations you advocate (that socialism and communism are interchangeable, the Soviet Union was not socialist, but state capitalist and Lenin misrepresented Marx)? I am very interested in exploring this perspective. <br />Thank you very much. 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